FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ON THE THERMODYNAMIC ENERGY SYSTEM 

Financial

Thermodynamic Panel Prices – How Much Does it Cost to Install a Thermodynamic Energy System

The Cost To Install a Thermodynamic system

It is difficult to give price without surveying the property and the proposed location of the installation.

The cost to install a thermodynamic system will vary depending on a number of factors. This is why we provide a FREE, NO Obligation site survey to advise you of the best system for you and location for the install.

Taking into consideration the amount of work required to install the system an accurate written quotation for the supply and installation service can then be provided.

Greenservuk provide a complete supply and fit service. All installs are carried out by fully qualified professionals registered and certified by the Microgeneration Scheme (MCS)

The size of the cylinder

There are a number of different cylinders available. 200lt, 250lt, 280lt and 300lt. There are also other options like a secondary coil if you decide to use an additional heat source like a biomass boiler or a backup gas boiler.

The number of thermodynamic panels

The standard system for domestic water heating comes with one panel but for larger installations or where the demand for hot water is high, two may be required. For large volume water heating, swimming pools and central heating, up to 40 panels maybe used which speeds up the heating process.

The existing setup and plumbing

If the property already has an old cylinder then this has to be drained down and removed before the thermodynamic cylinder can be fitted. The plumbing work also has to be assessed and can vary a great deal depending on your existing setup and where the new cylinder is being installed etc.

Where the cylinder and thermodynamic block is to be installed

The cylinder requires a space of around 900mm x 600mm. They can be fitted into an existing airing cupboard if there is space but are often fitted in the garage, utility room, pantry, carport or bathroom. In some cases we have to remove door frames and build a cupboard or space for the system.

Where the panel is to be installed

The panel is normally fitted to a Southerly facing wall. If the panel is to be fitted onto the roof then scaffolding is required which will incur additional cost.

The distance between the thermodynamic block and the panel

The distance and the route required for the pipework has to be assessed. There is a maximum of 10 metre pipe run between the block and the panel. This can be extended but will require additional refrigerant being added. The pipe needs to have as few bends in it as possible and so we look for the best way to run it to keep it as straight as we can whilst also ensuring it is unobtrusive and properly protected.

Any extra building or remedial work required.

In some projects we may have to carry out building or remedial work and this has to be priced individually.

Contact us today for a FREE survey by clicking the link on the banner below

 

 

The Rising Cost Of Energy

Take a look at the rising cost of energy.

 

rising energy prices

Is the system expensive to run?

No, our 300 litre system will only consume 390 watts saving around 89% on traditional water heating costs.

How Can I confirm the Solar Keymark

Go to http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/mcs-consumer/product-search.php

The License number is 011-7S888 F

Click on the link highlighted in the image below.

 

If you then add the first part of the license code “011-7S8”  That is an ‘S’ not a ‘5’

Click image to enlarge it

You can also download a copy of the certificate by right clicking on the link below.

Download a copy of the Certificate

How Much Is The RHI Payments

This is not known at the minute. The current figure for the domestic solar thermal RHI payment is a fixed payment of between £300 and £400 per year for a 20 year period.

The thermodynamic system is around 3 or 4 times more productive than the evacuated tube, solar thermal solar products and we expect the payment for the thermodynamics to be at least twice the amount of traditional thermal solar.

Unlike the commercial RHI payments which have to be metered for thermal solar, the RHI payment on domestic systems are based on a fixed payment over the 20 year period which means that the return on investment can be calculated accurately from day one.

 

Do they qualify for the RHI Payment

Yes, they qualify for both the renewable heat incentive premium payment of £300 per install and will then automatically qualify for the renewable heat incentive payments which will be launched in the summer of 2013.

You can apply for the RHI here https://rhi.ofgem.gov.uk/ 

Commercial Energy Efficiency Financing

 For Commercial Enterprises and Business Only

Energy Efficiency Financing

Investment in energy efficient equipment makes sound business and environmental sense.

Carbon Trust Implementation Services and Siemens Financial Services have combined forces, and together are offering financing options to all types of organisations, who have been trading for more than 36 months and are seeking to reduce their own energy use.  New, more efficient equipment should lower energy bills and with financing payments calculated so that they can be offset by anticipated energy savings, the financing option is designed to pay for itself.  The independent carbon saving assessment is undertaken by Carbon Trust Implementation Services while the financing is provided by Siemens Financial Services.

Energy Efficiency Financing Made Easy

Energy Efficiency Financing is available to a wide variety of organisations and could help you to save money, reduce your energy costs and ultimately become greener.  There are a number of affordable financing options available from Siemens Financial Services which can deliver increased energy savings and earnings from the very beginning.  The scheme has been designed so that financing payments are offset by anticipated energy savings, therefore new equipment should pay for itself.

Energy Efficiency Financing

  • Save energy costs, at zero extra cost . . . now! 
  • Energy savings and productivity increases
  • Cash positive from day one!

Save energy costs, at zero extra cost . . . now!


Energy Efficiency Financing gives businesses an affordable means to invest in energy saving equipment straight away, with no additional cost, because energy savings pay for the new equipment.

Available finance
By uniquely combining specialist equipment financing from Siemens with the expertise of the Carbon Trust, Energy Efficiency Financing provides an extra line of finance additional to your usual banking arrangements – especially important in a credit squeeze.

Trusted brands, peace of mind
Energy Efficiency Financing includes a Carbon Trust energy saving assessment as a matter of course, giving you the peace of mind that the equipment will deliver the energy savings you expect.  And with financing provided by Siemens you have the reassurance of working with partners you can trust.

Energy savings and productivity increases
Businesses installing more energy efficient technology with Energy Efficiency Financing often also find that equipment is more productive, delivering energy savings and increased earnings.

Cash positive from day one!
Increasing numbers of businesses are discovering that with Energy Efficiency Financing, they can afford new equipment, and with the savings, become cash positive right from the start.

More information from the Carbon Trust can be found here

General

How Long Have Thermodynamics Been Around

Thermodynamics was actually discovered in 1829 by a French physicist but the patented technology gave birth to the first thermodynamic system in its present form in 1990.

33,000 systems are produced per year, and sold in 30 different countries around the World.

 

Can the Systems Be Designed Based On Customer Requirements

Yes, The systems can be tailored and designed for most applications.

The systems come from a single panel self contained cylinder to up to 40 panels with a separate heat exchanger and multi tank installation.

What Is The Solar Keymark Accreditation

Solar Keymark

Our Thermodynamic system is the ONLY one to have the Solar Keymark  which allows it to qualify for the RHI payment scheme.

 

 

 

 

 

The Solar Keymark was created to certify solar thermal products of high quality at European level. The aim is to reduce trade barriers and promote the use of high quality solar thermal products in the European market and beyond.

The Solar Keymark is a voluntary third-party certification mark for solar thermal products, demonstrating to end-users that a product conforms to the relevant European standards and fulfils additional requirements. The Solar Keymark is used in Europe and increasingly recognized worldwide.

More information on Solar Keymark Certification.

The Solar Keymark is a CEN/CENELEC European mark scheme, dedicated to:

  • Solar thermal collectors (based on European standard series EN 12975)
  • Factory made solar thermal systems (based on European standard series EN12976

To download Image right click here and select ‘save as’ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is WRAS – Water Regulations Advisory Scheme

Our Products have been awarded the certificate of excellence in the UK

Our company is the Global leader in the production of the thermodynamic energy system and is the only company to be awarded the WRAS – Water Regulations Advisory Scheme – certificate for our products

This is the highest level of certification awarded in the water supply industry in the United Kingdom and aims to assess product conformity, in this case the thermodynamic solar panels.

WRAS, via the Technical Product Assessment Committee, examined, tested and approved the thermodynamic solar panels, and came to the conclusion that, “when correctly installed”, the same “fully conform with all the requirements in force in the United Kingdom”.

Can the thermodynamic solar system be installed in any area?

Yes, it is particularly suitable for countries like the United Kingdom where we are not known for our hot sunny days. The system has been used extensively in Norway and Denmark, where thermal solar is not a viable option due to their prolonged cold weather. 

Do I need to keep my boiler or old cylinder for hot water?

No. Thermodynamic solar system is enough to ensure hot water throughout the year with high energy efficiency, so that you will not need any special module or keep any other backup system such as a boiler or electric cylinder.


How Much Is The RHI Payments

This is not known at the minute. The current figure for the domestic solar thermal RHI payment is a fixed payment of between £300 and £400 per year for a 20 year period.

The thermodynamic system is around 3 or 4 times more productive than the evacuated tube, solar thermal solar products and we expect the payment for the thermodynamics to be at least twice the amount of traditional thermal solar.

Unlike the commercial RHI payments which have to be metered for thermal solar, the RHI payment on domestic systems are based on a fixed payment over the 20 year period which means that the return on investment can be calculated accurately from day one.

 

Is installation easy and quick?

Yes. Due to the unique and innovative features, thermodynamic solar system can be installed in less than a day. It simply connects to your existing hot water pipes.

Will I be able to generate hot water without other sources of power in days without sun?

Yes. The refrigerant liquid circulating at a negative temperature inside the panel is able to collect more solar power than a normal liquid, and even in days when the weather is cold and at night time. Due to a temperature gradient, the solar panel is able to capture the heat in the environment and transfer it to the water. Thus, the system guarantees hot water up to 55º C. In fact the system will work 24/7 whether it is cloudy, raining, windy, frosty or snowing.

What if I need more Hot Water Than I Am Producing?

In the unlikely event that you require more water than the system provides there is a back up immersion heater built into the cylinder, that can be used to speed up the reheating of the water. At an ambient temperature of 15 degrees celsius the water will heat up at a rate of 14 degrees celsius per hour. That takes less than 6 hours to heat up a 200 litre tank of water from cold.

Can it Heat my Home?

Yes, the thermodynamic atmospheric panels are well suited to underfloor central heating or skirting heating systems.

Whilst it is best suited to underfloor or skirting heating, they can also be used with aluminium convector radiators or alternatively it can used to pre-heat your water to 55 degrees so that your existing boiler only has to top it up to 85 degrees for conventional steel radiators.

Do the collector panels have to be installed on the roof?

No, they can be fitted vertically to a wall on a terrace or on the roof .

Can the system heat my swimming pool?

Most definitely, they can be used to heat your swimming pool as well as heating your domestic hot water.

Will the Panels Rust?

No, they are made of anodised aluminium so they will not corrode

Does the water get hotter if I use more than one panel?

No, the water will heat up to a maximum of around 55 degrees celsius, adding more panels will improve the recovery performance and heat the water faster.

Is there a lot of maintenance with the system?

There is virtually no maintenance required on the panels or the system.

What is the guarantees on the system?

There is a 2 year guarantee on the thermo block and 5 years on the collector panels.

Is There Training Available

Yes, there is product training and installation training available for all of the thermodynamic products.

Contact us for more details and schedules.

Technical

Does the System Need To Be MCS Approved

No, the product has the solar keymark and therefore qualifies for the RHIPP and RHI payments.

The solar keymark is the pan European equivalent of the MCS.

 

What is the COP of the System

The CoP or Coefficient is simply the input to output ratio.
It is a way to measure the amount of energy created for the amount of energy it uses.
Some of the larger thermodynamic systems can produce a COP of up to 7. This means that for every Kw of energy it uses it will produce 7 Kw’s energy.
The Cop will change and is affected by the ambient temperature. The warmer the outside temperature the higher the system will perform.
It is worth mentioning that the warmer the temperature the faster the water will be heated. It will not heat water more.
When you compare the CoP of the thermodynamic system against a traditional it becomes apparent on just how efficient the thermodynamic panels are.
For example oil or gas boilers have a Cop of 0.85 that is it takes around 1.15 Kw to produce 1 Kw of energy
The following table shows the rate at which the water heats up as well as the COP at different temperatures.
thermodynamic 200 litre tank table
The speed of rising temperature is the rate at which the water is heated per hour in degrees celsius.
The COP is also based on daylight hours. The COP can drop by around 22% during the hours of darkness.

Thermodynamic Panel Layout Options

The following is an assortment of layouts and panel arrangements. for the block systems.

The closer to the block the better but the larger systems can have the panels up to 30 metres away from the thermodynamic block.

 

 

Panel Arrangement vertical small

Can the Systems Be Designed Based On Customer Requirements

Yes, The systems can be tailored and designed for most applications.

The systems come from a single panel self contained cylinder to up to 40 panels with a separate heat exchanger and multi tank installation.

Do You Install the Thermodynamic Systems

Yes, we have 9 teams of MCS qualified installers that are fully trained on the fitting and commissioning of the thermodynamic solar energy systems.

Out team of engineers cover the whole of the UK and for a standard domestic installtion will have the system installed and running in less than a day.

For larger commercial systems then a survey is required to establish the complexity of the install and the time that will be required for the fit.

 

What Is The Solar Keymark Accreditation

Solar Keymark

Our Thermodynamic system is the ONLY one to have the Solar Keymark  which allows it to qualify for the RHI payment scheme.

 

 

 

 

 

The Solar Keymark was created to certify solar thermal products of high quality at European level. The aim is to reduce trade barriers and promote the use of high quality solar thermal products in the European market and beyond.

The Solar Keymark is a voluntary third-party certification mark for solar thermal products, demonstrating to end-users that a product conforms to the relevant European standards and fulfils additional requirements. The Solar Keymark is used in Europe and increasingly recognized worldwide.

More information on Solar Keymark Certification.

The Solar Keymark is a CEN/CENELEC European mark scheme, dedicated to:

  • Solar thermal collectors (based on European standard series EN 12975)
  • Factory made solar thermal systems (based on European standard series EN12976

To download Image right click here and select ‘save as’ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is WRAS – Water Regulations Advisory Scheme

Our Products have been awarded the certificate of excellence in the UK

Our company is the Global leader in the production of the thermodynamic energy system and is the only company to be awarded the WRAS – Water Regulations Advisory Scheme – certificate for our products

This is the highest level of certification awarded in the water supply industry in the United Kingdom and aims to assess product conformity, in this case the thermodynamic solar panels.

WRAS, via the Technical Product Assessment Committee, examined, tested and approved the thermodynamic solar panels, and came to the conclusion that, “when correctly installed”, the same “fully conform with all the requirements in force in the United Kingdom”.

What Qualifications Are Required To Install The Systems

To Install the system you need to have your MCS in Solar Thermal. plus F Gas certification.

  • A recognised competence in a conventional fuel i.e. gas, oil, or solid fuel or a relevant plumbing qualification such as an NVQ level 2 or equivalent experience
  • F gas certification
  • Electrical Part P
  • A certificate of competence for the installation of unvented hot water systems
  • A WRAS approved Water Regulations qualification
  • An Energy Efficiency qualification issued by a 17024 UKAS accredited body
  • An independently accredited health and safety qualification covering Working at Heights, CoSHH and Manual Handling qualifications

Is installation easy and quick?

Yes. Due to the unique and innovative features, thermodynamic solar system can be installed in less than a day. It simply connects to your existing hot water pipes.

Will I be able to generate hot water without other sources of power in days without sun?

Yes. The refrigerant liquid circulating at a negative temperature inside the panel is able to collect more solar power than a normal liquid, and even in days when the weather is cold and at night time. Due to a temperature gradient, the solar panel is able to capture the heat in the environment and transfer it to the water. Thus, the system guarantees hot water up to 55º C. In fact the system will work 24/7 whether it is cloudy, raining, windy, frosty or snowing.

Do They Have To Be Facing South?

No, the panels do not have to be fitted on a South facing roof or wall. They will be more efficient if facing Southerly but this is not imperative as they do not rely on sunlight to work, they absorb the heat from the air, rain, wind and snow. They will even work inside although this is not an advisable way to fit them

Will the Panels Rust?

No, they are made of anodised aluminium so they will not corrode

Does the water get hotter if I use more than one panel?

No, the water will heat up to a maximum of around 55 degrees celsius, adding more panels will improve the recovery performance and heat the water faster.

What is the guarantees on the system?

There is a 2 year guarantee on the thermo block and 5 years on the collector panels.

Is There Training Available

Yes, there is product training and installation training available for all of the thermodynamic products.

Contact us for more details and schedules.

How big are the panels and how much do they weigh?

The panels are about 1,700 cm X 800 cm and only weigh 8kg. They absorb the heat from both sides of the panels so are very efficient.

Do the collectors produce electric?

No, the thermodynamic system will only produce hot water.

Is this a heat pump?

 

There have been many arguments as to whether this is a heat pump or not and opinions are divided. The system does have the thermal solar keymark  on it and it qualifies for the RHI payments, which means that the those good people at DECC are of the opinion that it is a thermal solar system and not a heat pump.
Our thermodynamic system does not require mechanical ventilation using fans that can be expensive to run as well as being quite noisy.  Unlike heat pumps they will work at very low temperatures. They have a COP of 4 at 0 degrees celsius and as high as 7 in warmer whether which is far better than any heat pump or thermal solar system on the market today.
The system uses a refrigerant liquid which is passed through a solar panel where it absorbs the heat from the atmospheric temperature. The heated liquid evaporates and is passed through a thermo block via a compressor. This heated gas then passes through a heat exchanger where it transfers the heat to the water in the cylinder before cooling and reverting back to a liquid where the process is repeated.

Will They Overheat or Freeze

No, the thermodynamic solar panels system will not overheat or freeze.

Thermal solar and the evacuated tubes have been known to crack and even explode in extreme temperatures.

Our panels are made of aluminium and use a refrigerant which runs through the panels at -26 degrees celsius so will not freeze or overheat.

The system will not overheat as the refrigerant controls the temperature.

 

How Do They Work in Detail

The thermodynamic system is made up of a solar collector panel a thermodynamic block and a water storage tank or cylinder and for swimming pools or central heating an additional heat exchanger.

It is a new generation in thermal solar for heating hot water system.

The equipment holds a refrigerant fluid which is pre-loaded at the factory. The thermodynamic Solar Panel is manufactured of anodised aluminium with a powder coating that ensures a long-term protection against corrosion and the highest efficiency.

The storage cylinder is manufactured from steel with an enamel coating and expanded polyurethane insulation. There is a cathode installed to protect the tank from corrosion.

The System in its most basic definition, is refrigeration in reverse. The process of heating water involves the usage of environmental energy such as solar radiation, air and rain temperature.

The system is based on the Thermodynamic Laws, formulated by the French physicist Carnot’s theories. In the case of the thermodynamic solar panels, the thermodynamic concepts are put into practice by using a fluid that evaporates at as it is heated.  The heat absorbed by the collector panels are transported  towards the water that we want to heat.

Despite the lack of solar radiation (maximum solar heat contribution), these panels capture the heat from the surrounding air all day long, as well as latent heat of rain, since the coolant remains inside the collector at -25 degrees Celsius which allows it to absorb as much heat as possible. Then, a compressor in the block raises the fluid temperature to 110 degrees Celsius,  and it flows into the water circuit by way of a temperature exchanger, heating the water up to 55 Degrees Celcius. This guarantees us to have hot water all year round as long as the temperature stays above -15  Degrees Celsius.

In areas that tend to suffer from prolonged cold spells below freezing, it is possible to put the panels underground where the temperature is above freezing at all times and therefore continue to operate effectively.

More details on how the system work can be found via the links below

Thermodynamic Solar Energy

Thermodynamics How They Work 1

Thermodynamics How They Work 2

 

 

What is a Magnesium Anode (Sacrificial Anode)

A magnesium anode, more commonly known as a sacrificial anode block is a rod made from magnesium with a steel core.

The anode is used to protect the metal cylinder from corrosion.

It works by the way of electrolysis. The two metals create an electrical connection when in water and the weaker of the two metal will corrode which in turn protects the other.

In this case the anode block is the weaker and therefore will corrode over time protecting the actual cylinder.

The magnesium rod will corrode faster in soft water (high in sodium) than it does in hard water areas.

The anode should be checked every 2 years or so and replaced when required.

If you have any further questions please contact us and we will be happy to help. Contact page